Welltower Q4 2025 Earnings Call - Pivot to Operations and Tech Powers a Reborn Senior Housing Growth Engine

Speaker 4: Hello and welcome to the Welltower fourth quarter 2025 earnings call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker’s remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. I would now like to turn the conference over to Matt McQueen, Chief Legal Officer. You may begin.

Matt McQueen, Chief Legal Officer, Welltower: Thank you and good morning. As a reminder, certain statements made during this call may be deemed forward-looking statements in the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act. Although Welltower believes any forward-looking statements are based on reasonable assumptions, the company can give no assurances that its projected results will be attained. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements are detailed in the company’s filings with the SEC. With that, I’ll hand the call over to Shankh for his remarks.

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: Thank you, Matt, and good morning, everyone. This morning, I’ll provide some high-level thoughts on the business, our recent capital allocation priorities, and a recap of what proved to be a truly transformational year for our company. 2025 not only marked the 10-year anniversary of the refounding of our company by the current management, but also proved to be the most pivotal year in the company’s history. We’re pleased to have delivered 36% revenue growth, 32% EBITDA growth, and a 22% FFO per share growth while deleveraging our balance sheet and investing significantly into our future systems and talent. We launched our private funds management business, overhauled our internal and external incentive structure, made substantial progress on Welltower Business System initiatives, and created our Tech Squad to take our technology journey to the next level.

However, these exceptional achievements made across the business are, frankly, in the rearview mirror, where our focus is firmly and intensely on what comes next. What truly excites us is the deliberate actions we took in 2025, which we believe will meaningfully amplify the trajectory and duration of our long-term per share growth. These actions were part of a decade-long effort to transform our firm from a real estate deal shop when we arrived at the company to an operations and technology-first business with a maniacal obsession of delighting residents and prioritizing site-level employee experience. There are very few businesses in which earning the trust of customers is more important than senior living.

Each day, our team shows up with one question in mind: How do we support our best-in-class operators through Welltower Business System to provide a killer value proposition to residents, their families, and site-level employees whom the residents rely on every day? As an operating company in a real estate wrapper, it is of utmost importance that we get this right. Only then do we have a shot at achieving our North Star, the long-term compounding of per share growth for our existing investors. Before providing some additional commentary on the events which led to this juncture, I’ll quickly review our fourth quarter results. In terms of our senior housing operating portfolio, we ended the strongest year in our company’s history with a high note, reporting 13th consecutive quarter in which same-store net operating income growth exceeded 20%.

Our organic revenue growth continues to hover around 10%, driven by 400 basis points of year-over-year occupancy gains and healthy rate growth. As Tim will outline for you shortly, we expect another year of strong occupancy upside in 2026, along with strong pricing power. Additionally, I would be remiss not to mention the continued outside expansion in operating margins, which increased by another 200 basis points, 270 basis points in the fourth quarter. As John will describe to you shortly, we continue to see multiple opportunities to drive margins meaningfully higher in the coming years, including continued implementation of Welltower Business System, our proprietary operator-tailored end-to-end operating platform. Looking to 2026 and beyond, against a macro and a geopolitical backdrop fraught with uncertainty, the end-market demand for our product is highly visible and only expected to improve as the 80+ population continues its pace of rapid growth.

With new construction remaining at trough levels and long-term interest rates and construction costs remain stubbornly high, we continue to feel good about the supply side. While demand-supply picture continues to improve each passing day, we’re laser-focused on execution at the granular level alongside our operating partners with whom we stand shoulder to shoulder no matter what. Despite the true joy and satisfaction of helping residents to leave well, the underlying business of senior living is a hard one. Needs are very different and nuanced from resident to resident. Our predecessor company, HCN, entered into equity ownership post-GFC from a historic lease or a credit model without appreciating it was a completely different game.

For the last decade, the current management team completely overhauled this organization, turned over two-thirds of our asset base and operators, 90% of the people, and transformed the contracts, and so on and so forth. The transition has been and continues to be incredibly difficult. We built out a vertically integrated hardware-plus-software model to navigate these treacherous waters. The hardware is our best-in-class real estate that we curated over the past decade. The software is comprised of WBS, along with the execution of our best-in-class operating partner ecosystem. We see the light at the end of the tunnel, but we still have a long way to go, even after almost two decades of accumulated battle scars and paying dumb taxes. This is not a complaint. The management team of this company, including yours truly, deliberately sought out this industry because it is a hard problem to solve.

Our competition is forced to follow us in these difficult terrains. This vertically integrated software-plus-hardware model aims to reduce latency across the stack of decision-making and put network effect into operational execution. This directly feeds into our capital allocation flywheel, driving execution into high gear in 2025, which we are likely to observe again in 2026. We ultimately completed nearly $11 billion of net investment activity for the year, consisting primarily of high-growth senior housing properties across all our regions, which were funded in large part through the sale of our outpatient medical business for $7.2 billion. We thus far sold the first four tranches of the portfolio for $5.8 billion, significantly ahead of our prior expectations, with the remainder set to close in the first half of the year.

It’s worth repeating that we’re able to execute this massive capital rotation and a shift in our long-term growth profile without incurring any near-term earnings dilution. Historically, in the corporate world, these types of makeshifts to higher-growth businesses from lower-growth ones almost invariably come with some degree of dilution. As lower-growth businesses generally trade at lower multiples, it stark contrasts to what we pulled off. Importantly, we continue to be extremely discerning in our evaluation of prospective acquisition, having passed on $ billions of opportunities which simply did not meet our criteria in terms of location, quality, operator contract, or pricing.

We recently saw some high-quality assets where we wouldn’t sign even an NDA because they were encumbered by long-term management contracts, where in exchange for writing the entire equity check, you get the honor of sitting in second position on cash flow and delivering a hope note that someone else will get it right. We do not buy assets with liens on them, which is exactly what long-term management contracts are. Nonetheless, we have started off 2026 with a bang, with $5.7 billion of acquisitions and with $2.5 billion of new deals completed or under contract in just the first six weeks of the year, and a robust pipeline that can be described as granular, visible, and highly actionable. Needless to say, 2026 is quickly shaping out to be another banner year for us in terms of acquisition activity.

Importantly, capital allocation does not solely involve acquisitions but also includes disposition activity to methodically shape the portfolio of future growth. It is not about here and now, but the duration of growth that will be the key determinant of long-term success. Through these efforts, we have been able to intensify our focus on rental housing for a rapidly aging population. In addition to the sale of our outpatient medical portfolio, which I mentioned earlier, we sold another $1.3 billion of portfolio of skilled nursing assets, which marks one of the most successful full-circle transactions executed by our management team. We bought this portfolio as a part of QCP transaction in 2018, which is the only public-to-public M&A transaction executed by this management team.

As most of you are aware, the period from 2020 to 2022 was exceptionally challenging for that sector, driven by the impacts of the COVID pandemic and resulting labor shortage. However, due to the structure we created in 2018, including a parent guarantee, we did not lose a dollar of cash flow despite substantial cash flow deterioration incurred at the property level. At the time, many folks had encouraged us to simply rip the band-aid off and dispose of this portfolio, given the headache it was creating for us in the public market. Instead, we rolled up our sleeves to determine the best path forward for the portfolio and for our owners, with the firm belief that volatility is not risk. Ultimately, we embarked on an arduous process of recapitalizing this portfolio with Integra, which then brought its network of regional and local sharpshooters to turn the portfolio around.

Over subsequent 3.5 years, the portfolio witnessed a massive $500 billion rebound in cash flow, which we believe is close to stabilization. The return achieved by this sale is a function of basis, structuring, and sheer grit and tenacity displayed by our team to achieve the best possible outcome for our owners. I would note that the unlevered IRR of 25% and a 3.1x unlevered money multiple achieved on this portfolio over 7 years compares highly favorably to a proxy of public SNF peers whose equity is levered, which delivered an approximately 10%-11% return over the same time. Collectively, these bold capital allocation moves, both acquisitions and dispositions, have enabled us to remove organizational complexity and narrow our focus on senior housing with the goal of elevating the customer and employee experience through better operations and technology.

At the same time, we fundamentally enhanced the terminal growth rate of our enterprise. Lastly, I’m pleased to announce the closing of Senior Housing Equity Fund One and the launch of Senior Housing Debt Fund One, our foray into capitalized businesses. Nikhil will provide you more details, but this business vertical represents a natural extension of our balance sheet strategy, allowing us to jump-start a significant capital allocation business. We’re incredibly grateful to ADIA and our other LPs who have entrusted us with their capital in this new endeavor. And with that, I’ll turn it over to John.

Matt McQueen, Chief Legal Officer, Welltower: Thank you. Good morning, everyone. As Shankh described, 2025 marked a truly transformational year for Welltower. Not only did we deliver another period of exceptional results, but we also witnessed the benefits of our Welltower Business System initiatives starting to bear fruit. As we discussed in the past, the backdrop for growth remains attractive, but our goal is to drive meaningful alpha for our owners through the full-scale modernization of the senior housing portfolio via WBS. More on that shortly. In terms of our fourth quarter results, we delivered total portfolio same-store NOI growth of 15%, driven once again by another quarter of strong senior housing operating portfolio growth of 20.4%. Remarkably, this marks the 13th consecutive quarter in which SHOP portfolio same-store NOI growth has exceeded 20%.

Demand for our needs-based and private-pay senior housing product continues to strengthen, as reflected by continued occupancy gains during a seasonally slower period of the year. From a year-over-year perspective, the portfolio delivered another quarter of 400 basis points of occupancy growth, among the highest levels achieved in our history. Combined with healthy levels of rate growth, we achieved same-store revenue growth of 9.6%. Notably, top-line growth was consistent across all three geographies and senior housing acuity levels. With respect to expenses, we continue to see favorable trends across key line items. ExPOR or unit expense growth increased 0.8%, one of the lowest levels achieved in our recorded history. As the spread between RevPOR and ExPOR growth remains at historically wide levels, we were able to post another quarter of strong margin expansion of 270 basis points.

As Shankh mentioned, given the high fixed-cost nature of the senior housing business, we expect operational leverage inherent in our business to continue to play an important role in driving margins meaningfully higher in future years. Additionally, our regional densification efforts continue to create significant top and bottom-line synergies, while we also recognize meaningful efficiencies from our WBS-driven initiatives. Going forward, we remain highly confident in our ability to continue to deliver outsized NOI growth. While we take nothing for granted and remain intensely focused on driving excellence in all aspects of operations, organic revenue growth should remain strong, with significant occupancy runway ahead coupled with the healthy rate growth. Similarly, there is ample room for margin expansion from current levels for the reasons I noted a moment ago.

As I think about the next few years and beyond, our focus is simple: people, optimizing the human interaction to provide a delightful experience, processes, remove bottlenecks and streamline flow, data, provide our operating partners with robust objective data to drive positive outcomes, and technology, leverage technology to improve the customer and employee experience, automating processes and providing personalized experiences. Reinventing a business like senior housing is by no means an easy one, and we have not been shy about adding necessary resources, including extraordinarily high-caliber talent, to effectuate this change. As Shankh described, WBS, along with our operating partnership relationships, serve as the backbone of the software side of our vertically integrated hardware and software model. We are methodically removing time-consuming administrative burdens that employees contend with on a daily basis, freeing them to focus on what they signed up for, taking care of residents.

In terms of recent talent we have brought into Welltower, we have already witnessed a strong impact from Jeff Stott, our new Chief Technology Officer from Extra Space Storage, along with his first prominent hire, Bron McCall, himself a former CTO of Extra Space. Together, they are leading the digital transformation of the business and integration of our enterprise systems, areas where they bring deep expertise and a strong track record from their prior roles. The early contributions from other members of our Tech Squad cannot be overstated either. Additionally, the decision to transition some of our strongest internal talent into operational roles, including Russ Simon, our EVP of operations, is already being validated by meaningful value they are creating.

In our continued pursuit of higher standards across every aspect of the organization, particularly in operations, we remain fully committed to investing the time, talent, and resources necessary to deliver a truly superior experience for senior housing residents and the employees who serve them. The future of our company has never been brighter, driven by the dedication of our internal Welltower team and the unwavering commitment to our operating partners who share our vision for transforming the industry. More to come in 2026. With that, I’ll turn the call over to Nikhil.

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: Thanks, John. Good morning, everyone. As I reflect on 2025, it was a marquee year for the company, one that fundamentally changed the long-term growth profile of our business. We deployed $11 billion of net investment capital and, together with strong organic NOI growth, increased our shop concentration by roughly 12 percentage points to circa 70%. On the investment side, we closed 90 different transactions, acquiring over 1,000 properties, more than 175 of which are either under construction or recently delivered. While these assets are not meaningful contributors to near-term results, they are expected to significantly bolster our already industry-leading growth for many years to come, and we’re underwritten to achieve attractive risk-adjusted returns. To put the quality of our recent acquisitions in context, the average age of our shop portfolio today is 16 years compared to 19 years at the end of 2021.

On the disposition side, we continue to create shareholder value by monetizing mature or slower-growing assets and redeploying capital into higher growth, higher total return opportunities. As a result, the assets we acquired are budgeted to generate approximately 10 times more growth in 2026 than the assets we sold. Our previously announced $7.2 billion outpatient medical sale to Kayne Anderson, which generated a $1.9 billion gain on sale, remains on track and ahead of schedule. To date, we have closed approximately $5.8 billion, with the remaining assets expected to close during the first half of the year as tenant estoppels and ground letter consents are finalized. I also want to highlight our progress on the Integra Health portfolio, or what some of you may remember as the former ProMedica, QCP, or HCR ManorCare portfolio.

We have entered into $1.3 billion of asset sales across 12 different transactions, representing approximately half of the portfolio. With these sales, as Shankh mentioned, we have achieved an unlevered IRR of approximately 25% or a 3.1x unlevered multiple on invested capital, returns that are exceptionally difficult to generate at this scale. Candidly, this transaction has not always been a popular one with many of you. The initial announcement in 2018 was met with skepticism, and during our restructuring period in 2022, many investors would have preferred that we exit the assets at bottom-of-cycle values. Our team took a different view. We went back to first principles and asked whether the underlying thesis had changed. Owning assets at an attractive basis in a supply-constrained sector with durable, needs-based demand, it hadn’t.

Rather than reacting to sentiment, we focused on execution, stabilizing operations, partnering with strong regional operators, maintaining a conservative rent load, and aligning incentives across the platform. Following these sales, the remaining Integra assets continue to perform well, with in-place EBITDA coverage greater than 2x. Staying the course wasn’t the easiest decision in the moment, but it was a disciplined one, and it reflects how we approach capital allocation over full cycles, not short-term pressure. Turning to 2026, we are off to a great start. While the back half of the fourth quarter can often be a quieter period for deal activity, our momentum carried through the holidays and into the new year.

We have already closed on, or are under contract to close on, $5.7 billion of total acquisitions, including the previously announced $3.2 billion Amica Senior Lifestyles transaction and new activity of $2.5 billion over the last few weeks. This new activity spans more than 30 different transactions and is comprised primarily of newer vintage assets, with blended occupancy in the low 80% range. Most of these transactions were sourced off-market, which continues to reflect the strength of our relationships and origination platform. I am pleased to provide an update on our private fund management business, which we launched roughly one year ago. As we have mentioned several times, our approach to capital-light strategies is simple: we are moneymakers, not asset gatherers, and we seek opportunities that are compelling, durable, and complementary to our balance sheet.

We are thrilled about adding another business vertical, which we believe will benefit our existing owners over the long term. We recently held the final close of our U.S. Senior Housing Fund One with approximately $2.5 billion of equity commitments, marking one of the largest recent first-time real estate fund launches. The fund was significantly oversubscribed, which we believe is a reflection of our data science capabilities and capital allocation track record. The fund includes approximately $2.1 billion of third-party capital with blended management fees of 1.35% and eight third-party limited partners representing some of the most thoughtful and significant global capital providers. We are already approximately 50% deployed and, similar to our balance sheet strategy, investing in opportunities where we have high conviction. Building on the success of our equity fund during the fourth quarter, we also launched and held the first close of the Welltower U.S.

Senior Housing Debt Fund. I’ll close with this: our mandate is simple, from the moment we wake up to the moment we go to sleep, to create value for our shareholders. Our entire organization is focused on unlocking additional value, whether that comes from the assets we already own, through operations and disciplined portfolio management, or through thoughtful capital allocation, acquiring, lending, selling, or building assets, and by growing our capital-light business. Our thesis is straightforward: when we stay focused on simple goals, apply discipline, and keep emotion out of decision-making, good outcomes tend to follow. With that, I’ll turn the call over to Tim to walk through our financial results and 2026 earnings guidance.

Tim, Financial Leadership, Welltower: Thank you, Nikhil. My comments today will focus on our fourth quarter 2025 results, the performance of our triple net investment segments, our capital activity, a balance sheet liquidity update, and finally the introduction of our full year 2026 outlook. Welltower reported fourth quarter net income attributable to common stockholders of $0.14 per diluted share and normalized funds from operations of $1.45 per diluted share, representing 28.3% year-over-year growth. We also reported year-over-year total portfolio same-store NOI growth of 15%, driven by 20.4% growth in our shop portfolio, which now makes up circa 70% of our in-place NOI. Now turning to the performance of our triple net properties in the quarter. In our senior housing triple net portfolio, same-store NOI increased 2.6% year-over-year and trailing 12-month EBITDA coverage was 1.19 times. Next, same-store NOI in our long-term post-acute portfolio grew 2.6% year-over-year and trailing 12-month EBITDA coverage was 1.53 times.

Moving on to capital activity, we financed our investment activity in the quarter with dispositions in equity, with $9.5 billion of combined gross proceeds. This allowed us to fund $13.8 billion in investment activity and end the quarter with net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio of 3.03 times, representing a roughly half-turn reduction from the end of 2024. We ended the year with $5.2 billion of cash on hand, which, together with approximately $3.5 billion of disposition activity we expect to complete during the year, provides funding for roughly $5.7 billion of investment activity. This includes the $2.5 billion of net investment activity closed in Q1 or under contract close as we announced last night and the $3.2 billion Amica transaction that was put under contract last year.

Taken together, this net investment activity and continued cash flow growth from the in-place portfolio should leave us exiting 2026 at a net debt to EBITDA level consistent with where we finished this year. Before turning to our guidance, I want to highlight how our recent portfolio activity is changing the growth profile of our enterprise. Even with the same initial growth outlook for our senior housing operating portfolio as we started last year (18% the midpoint), our total portfolio same-store NOI growth is more than 200 basis points higher. This faster growth reflects the continued mix shift towards higher-growth senior housing communities and the flow-through impact this has on organic cash flow growth. In turn, this is driving a higher FFO growth assumption versus last year.

As we further intensify our focus on senior housing, we believe Welltower 3.0 is positioned to compound cash flows at a meaningfully higher rate than the portfolio’s prior growth profile. As I turn to our initial 2026 guidance, which was introduced last night, I want to remind you that despite the robust pipeline that both Nikhil and Shankh described, we have not included any investment activity in our outlook beyond the $5.7 billion that has been enclosed or publicly announced to date. Last night, we introduced a full year 2026 outlook for net income attributable to common stockholders of $3.11-$3.27 per diluted share and normalized FFO of $6.09-$6.25 per diluted share, or $6.17 at the midpoint. Our normalized FFO guidance represents a $0.88 per share increase at the midpoint from our 2025 full year results.

This increase is composed of a $0.58 increase from higher year-over-year senior housing operating NOI, a $0.30 increase from investment and financing activity, and $0.02 from higher triple net income. This $0.90 of growth is lent against $0.02 of G&A offsets. For context, the net G&A assumption, we expect general administrative expenses to be approximately $265 million at the midpoint, with stock-based compensation expense of approximately $60 million or $0.08 per share dragged to normalize FFO. Underlying this FFO guidance is an estimated total portfolio year-over-year same-store NOI growth of 11.25%-15.75%, driven by subsegment growth of outpatient medical 2%-3%, long-term post-acute 2%-3%, senior housing triple net 3%-4%, and finally, senior housing operating growth of 15%-21%.

This is driven by the following midpoints of their respective ranges: revenue growth of 9%, made up of RevPOR growth of 4.8% and year-over-year occupancy growth of 350 basis points, and expense growth of 5.5%, equating to ExPOR growth of just below 1.5%. With that, I will hand the call back over to Shankh.

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: Thank you, Tim. Before we open that call up for questions, I would like to discuss two topics that many of you have recently asked about: one, talent density and incentive design; and two, increased competition for acquisitions. I’ll address the first topic in two parts: Wall Street and Main Street. After announcing the 10-year executive continuity and alignment program last quarter, I sat down with majority of large shareholders. While we received significant support for the plan’s philosophical underpinnings, we have also heard a desire for expanding the group of participants and increasing the performance-based portion of the total plan. I’m delighted to inform you that, working with our board of directors, we swiftly applied this feedback. We brought in the plan to include seven additional leaders, with 70% of the payout now performance-based, up from 50% that was announced in Q3.

This group also gave up a substantial portion of their promoted interest in a first fund vehicle and all of their interest going forward, with those economics redirected towards attracting and retaining talent, the next level of leaders within the organization. We expect little to no turnover at NEO and EVP levels over the next decade and have designed long-term, highly aligned incentive plans to retain the strongest talent at all levels of our organization. Make no mistake: this is a team game. In terms of Main Street, the Welltower grant, which was announced in Charlie’s memory, has been a huge hit with our operating partners and at our communities. We’re expanding this program beyond the originally announced 10 communities and are exploring mechanics to expand it internationally.

Engaging with these frontline employees about Charlie and his philosophy of compounding has been, in many cases, prompted them to think for the first time about investing and long-term wealth creation beyond just wages alone, and has been personally extremely gratifying for me. We believe we’re onto something here. Regarding the announcement of several healthcare REITs and private funds jumping onto SHOP, I would offer the following observations, which are strictly my personal opinion: these are capable organizations, and many will find their niche to do well. Others will appreciate that writing credit checks is very different from owning equity in a complex and operationally intensive business that cannot be addressed simply by hiring few asset managers to manage the managers, as HCN did. These are full-cycle lessons and will be learned as such.

I have repeated this point for a decade and perhaps will continue to do so for another one, like a broken record: exposure alone does not define success in these challenging terrains. As I’ve mentioned in my earlier remarks, we deliberately sought out this industry because it is a hard business. Even in highly competitive industries with largely indistinguishable end products, elite long-term compounders still emerge: Costco, McDonald’s, Glenair, Kiewit, Cintas exist for a reason. If you take a step back and look into the relatively nascent senior housing industry with evolving standards to meet expectations of baby boomers, you will notice that there is virtually no scale capital focused solely on this business. To the contrary, the end-source capital, including some of the world’s largest pools of sovereign-type funds, actually wants to be part of the Welltower flywheel. But this is not a discussion of capital.

As Charlie said, any fool can write a check. In 2025, we targeted and evaluated several thousand acquisitions using our data science platform, and from those, curated a portfolio of roughly 1,000 communities that we engaged and transacted with sellers, mostly off-market. We onboarded this massive haul into Welltower Operating Partner Network with the help of WBS, which is a complex adaptive system with little disruption to customer service. The sheer complexity of scaling an unscalable business is where our value add lies. Yes, we can point you towards many examples, such as the Integra JV, that prove our capital allocation capabilities to be somewhat satisfactory. But it is not in addition to the operating and technology prowess of our network and that of our operating partner, but because of it.

And that moat is expanding, not shrinking, as the network effect of our data and insights on our platform grows exponentially. We welcome our competition to chase us into these challenging terrains that keep us on the edge and paranoid every day to show up to win. Having said that, we’re not a competition-centric organization. We’re a customer-centric organization. In rare cases where we engage in a market-based process, our competition for acquisition remains financial organizations who are fixated on cap rates, financing, and spread investing, while our obsession lies with the customer journey and employee experience. Our primary business remains off-market, privately negotiated transactions with owners, we’re trying to solve a bespoke problem, or embarking on a different opportunity. We have no crystal ball to determine which model will ultimately prove to be more successful.

While the change of our business model over the past decade ensures that we’ll not need to buy another asset to drive strong per-share growth well into the future, our expanding operational and technology moat is uncovering more and more acquisition opportunities for us. 2026 will be no different. With that, I’ll open the call up for questions.

Speaker 4: Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star 1 again. In the interest of time, please limit yourself to one question and rejoin the queue if needed. Thank you. Your first question comes from Vikram Malhotra with Mizuho. Your line is open.

John, Operational Leadership, Welltower: Morning, guys. Congrats on the strong quarter. Shankh, I guess I just want to build on what you just said: compounding and duration. I know you said you have a lot of acquisitions, ultimately that reloads the same store pool. We’ve seen this in other sectors. But I’m hoping you can give us a bit more quantitative or framework to think about this compounding aspect. The portfolio is at 90% on same store. How should we think about a stabilized portfolio in terms of RevPOR, margin, and then overlaying the WBS systems? Maybe anecdotes or some numbers would be helpful.

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: Yeah. Vikram, look, I’m not going to sit here and try to speculate what future might hold. But I will just say that, focus on a couple of things that I mentioned, which is: first is sort of the idea we’re not after same store, right? If you just think about what our North Star is, what we have said that we’re focused on is partial earnings and cash flow growth. And that comes from very different places, right? So let’s just think about it as mix shift is a very important part. We said that we believe that we’ll be able to drive double-digit NOI growth for a long period of time. So it’s very hard for me to say your focus is two years from now, five years from now, seven years from now.

So instead of that, let’s just focus on the fact that a lot of things matter is just, obviously, as assets leased up and get over 90%, we’re seeing significant pricing power higher than assets with, say, less than 80% occupancy, right? That’s just basic supply-demand. But also, I would like you to think about a couple of other things from the standpoint of earnings and cash flow growth. One is a very important factor: mix shift. Just think about it in simple terms, right? Two quarters ago, our shop was 59% of our overall portfolio, right? Obviously, probably four years ago, that was 35%, something like that. Now you think about it: okay, 60% grows 20%, 80% grows 15%, or 100% grows 12%. You have the same exact impact on partial earnings, just as a point of reference, right?

Then, sort of think about, okay, what’s going on with free cash flow generation? What can you do with that free cash flow, whether it’s acquisitions, whether it’s return on capital? Because the marginal cost of your free cash flow is zero. So all of these, as sort of you think about it, you can get to, and obviously, with an unlevered balance sheet, which someday we’ll use for growth as well. And you put all of these with the framework of what we think could be a long sort of journey ahead of us of margin expansion. And we think the growth algorithm, you don’t have to be a genius to figure out that it could be a very significant and very strong one. How exactly, what numbers, what year, it’s just hard to speculate right here, sitting here.

I will say that the future looks very bright to us. Whether we’re right or wrong, only future will say. You can see the 12 of our colleagues have bet their entire lives for the next decade on this because we think the future is very strong. We’ll see what market gives us.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from John Kilichowski with Wells Fargo. Your line is open.

Speaker 1: Hi. Good morning, everyone. My question’s on the Tech Squad. You’ve already made such progress with Welltower Business Systems and with your data science platform. I’m just curious, what challenges are there left in the senior housing space to tackle? You’re still hiring significantly. And then maybe an extension of that would be, are you building something that would eventually be monetizable?

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: So let me answer that question. I think I addressed this before. There are two ways I think about our technology platform. One is our data science platform, which is mature, but there’s a lot of work to do. And as you can see, what Nikhil mentioned, the economics that we received on our fund business that suggests to you, which is significantly higher, many would claim two times higher than many others have received in the fund management business, is a pure function of our capability of the data science platform, right? So one, you can see sort of the monetization of that platform is actually coming through. Now, if your question is on the operational side, operational technology side, I wouldn’t even call us mediocre. I would call us mediocre minus. So we have a long ways to go in that journey.

And just because we are better than in a business where we sought out because we thought there’s a lot of opportunity and we’re doing fine does not make us really great. So we have a long ways to go. And you can see that we continue to hire terrific leaders across different industries from different expertise. And we continue to double down on that. And I think this is a long sort of a journey in front of us. Now, if your question is, will we monetize these platforms in terms of other capitals to use, right? And think about sort of LRO of what Archstone and EQR did many years ago, or third-party management in self-storage, just things of that nature. If that question is with that angle, then I would say that that will never happen.

Our operating capabilities of our core investment cycle will always remain within the bounds of this company. Now, we’re bringing our capital and others into this platform. We’re open to helping our partners who are on the platform thinking about investment in real estate in many different ways. But you will never see us sell our operating software to someone else so that they can compete with us. We’ll never do that.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from Farrell Granath with Bank of America. Your line is open.

Speaker 0: Good morning. Thank you for the question. This is Farrell. I just wanted to touch on the Integra disposition. Now, given the sale of the SNF portfolio and really the highlight of the source of funds and the value harvesting, does this now frame your SNF portfolio in total as a source of funds for future acquisitions?

John, Operational Leadership, Welltower: Yeah, Farrell. I think the way to think about our skilled nursing portfolio, as we’ve described it in the past, is a structured credit investment, right? Structured credit investments, by default, are relatively short-dated in nature. The definition of that is in the eyes of the beholder. But our skilled nursing strategy is to acquire assets that have an operational turnaround story behind them, bring in really sharp regional operators, and then turn the performance around, harvest value. And our fundamental view is these high-quality operators, they should be the end owners of skilled nursing businesses, of skilled nursing assets, because there is attractive hub financing available. And once you’ve executed the business plan, that is the right stable capitalization of the assets. So we will continue to acquire, stabilize, exit. And then what we do with the proceeds and how we deploy it is purely opportunity-dependent.

We don’t have allocations in our mind of how big or small each bucket needs to be. If we have good opportunities, we’ll invest capital. If we don’t, we don’t. It’ll depend on what is the best use of capital, depending on the time period we’re in.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from Omotayo Okusanya with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: Yes. Good morning, everyone. Again, congrats on a really incredible outlook. A couple of questions, if I may just ask one or two. The first one, the SHOP portfolio, could you just help us understand at this point how large the non-same store pool is, some general characteristics of that pool, like occupancy or wherever that is? Just we’re trying to understand a little bit about how that’s growing relative to the stabilized portfolio.

John, Operational Leadership, Welltower: Yeah. I’ll start with that. So if you think about our same store portfolio right now, it makes up over half of our total portfolio. And a lot of that is just because of how acquisitive we were last year. So it takes five quarters for something we acquire to come into same store. I would describe the growth we’re seeing in that portfolio as consistent with what we have in our same store portfolio, the characteristics of that portfolio. It is less occupied. If you think about it, kind of that’s strategic on our side. We continue to buy assets that we believe there’s significant upside on the balance sheet. And then just given the nature of our acquisitions last year, a lot of it UK-focused in the back half of the year.

I’d characterize too that it’s heavier kind of non-same store is heavier in the UK relative to the same store portfolio.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from Ronald Kamdem with Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.

Speaker 7: Thanks so much. Hey, just wanted to double-click on some of the occupancy performance, both last year and sort of the guidance into going into 2026. I’d love some updated thoughts in terms of how you guys drive sort of move-ins versus move-outs and how much is WBS contributing to the outperformance versus the industry. Thanks.

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: I will take the last part of that question. John, perhaps you can address what Ron is trying to get on the first part. You know what sort of our peers or Nick Data or others sort of reported, I believe, for Nick99, the occupancy growth last year was something 250 or something like that. And we did 400. Sort of that gives you the answer to the first last question. John, what sort of how would you answer the first one?

John, Operational Leadership, Welltower: Yeah. You’re asking what’s driving the occupancy. I mean, there’s a combination of items. And it starts all the way from focusing on the marketing all the way through the customer experience, the speed to lead, how we’re answering the calls, etc., etc. And it’s an execution business. And that’s what’s changing rapidly as we isolate and focus on each component there and optimize at each site, which has enabled us to outperform market share.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from Michael Goldsmith with UBS. Your line is open.

Speaker 7: Good morning. Thanks a lot for taking my question. You had a robust year of acquisitions in 2025. 2026 is starting off very strong. How long can you continue to acquire unstabilized SHOP in the 75%-85% occupied range? At what point is there none of that left or that benefits from industry trends? And does that pose a problem now given that you now have a fund vehicle buying more stabilized assets? Thanks.

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: Yeah. I’m not doing a good job of explaining my points. I’m going to try to do it again. How long is it pure function of market opportunities? So I can’t sit here and tell you that how long the acquisitions opportunities will be there. The goal is to create value on a partial basis for existing investors and not do transactions, right? That’s sort of the first and foremost point I want you to walk away from. And so we will see. Our goal is to create value, right? So if we can create value by buying, we’ll do it. If not, we’ll not do it. If we can create value by selling, just like you saw, right? I said this several times. Making money is hard. Making money at scale is much harder. And we continue to do it.

So the goal is to create value for existing shareholders on a partial basis. I sort of see a Pavlovian response to acquisitions activity or investment amount. I understand historically sort of why that made sense because it was fundamentally a triple-net model. The only way companies drove earnings is buying properties because effectively, all their earnings were straight-lined and there was no growth. I understand that for many companies in the sector or triple-net sectors and others, I just wanted to emphasize this and understand that that does not matter to us anymore. The makeup of this company is at a place and continue at a place that we’ll never have to buy another asset. We’ll see what market gives us. Having said that, after answering your question philosophically, I will answer it tactically. We have never been busier.

As you can sort of, I think, you heard from Nikhil, in the first six weeks of the year, we have done 37 different transactions. That’s about a transaction a day, right? So it feels like the opportunity set is very robust in front of us as long as we can make money through sort of our operational and technological prowess and our ability to allocate capital. We’ll do it. If not, we’ll do what you just saw we did on the Integra portfolio.

John, Operational Leadership, Welltower: Michael, I’ll just add one thing really quickly. You started by talking about occupancy. That’s not the only lever of driving growth out of assets, right? It’s a complex operating business where you’re spending $70 of $100 you’re collecting on expenses. And so even in highly occupied buildings that we’re buying, we’re creating significant value through WBS. So that’s just one way of looking at it. But there’s just so much different ways to create value in the business.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from Austin Wurschmidt with KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Speaker 7: Great. Thanks. I was hoping you guys could contextualize the SHOP occupancy growth and RevPOR growth guidance versus last year. I mean, you’re at a higher occupancy today, but you’re initially assuming higher growth in occupancy than you did at the outset of last year. And I know last year had a leap year comparison. But just how should we think of the balance between RevPOR growth and occupancy growth and the setup going into 2026 versus where you were a year ago?

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: Let me try to start and then Tim will jump in. So obviously, it is our guess. So you have to understand that what we are telling you at this point, and we’ll see how the year plays out. From RevPOR point, it’s the one I’ll take up and say you picked up on one. You have to think about it on a leap year-adjusted basis. The other thing you have to think about is the massive pool change that happened in fourth quarter. I think I talked about this six months ago, that 90+ assets are going to get into fourth quarter, which is Holiday. Those assets are still in an occupancy journey. And until the occupancy journey gets stabilized, we’re not going to get onto a substantial rate journey. Just that change pool change alone was a 30 basis point drag on fourth quarter report.

That obviously is carrying through 2026 guidance numbers. But as I said, Austin, I’ll highly encourage you to think about these are for a large company, large portfolio, same store, RevPOR, ExPOR, NOI. These are all sort of markers towards the ultimate goal. And that ultimate goal is portfolio growth, right? So forget about how these things all combine into an optics. Just think about how much underlying cash flow growth we are driving that our initial FFO guidance, we started at, what, 16%, 17%? I don’t know, Tim, you want to add anything to that? Good. Okay.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from Nick Yulico with Scotiabank. Your line is open.

Speaker 7: Thanks. I guess maybe just a sort of related question on the guidance for how to think about that spread between RevPOR and ExPOR growth. I know you guys have the chart in the presentation. It’s been a wide spread. Are you guys assuming that spread is actually shrinking a bit this year? Because the reason I’m asking is I think you’re saying ExPOR growth is going to be somewhere below 1.5%. And I think it was below 1% last year. So just trying to understand that dynamic and if there’s also sort of an element of conservatism built in there. Thanks.

John, Operational Leadership, Welltower: Yeah. Thanks, Nick. I think the right way to think about it is beginning of the year outlook, as we sat here last February, we had a similar outlook for ExPOR as we have today. Where we ended the year, we drove more occupancy. ExPOR is a direct beneficiary of occupancy, being able to scale cost. So I think sitting here today, conservatism isn’t a word we kind of use when we think about our guidance. But it is just in our business, a disproportionate amount of the year-over-year growth is driven over a six-month period.

Consistent with how we’ve talked about guidance in the past, when we sat here in February and those six months kind of kick off in April and May, it’s just the appropriate kind of view of probability, what were possibilities, what could happen in the year, and framing it in a way now that certainly we hope we can outperform. I’ll leave it at that.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from Rich Anderson with Cantor Fitzgerald. Your line is open.

Speaker 7: Thanks. Good morning. Congrats. And congrats to the 12 employees. I hope you don’t get sick of one another in the next 10 years. So my question is everything’s great, great growth, all that sort of stuff. I have a question about the main problem with Welltower, if there is one. And that is everyone owns it. And everyone’s full on Welltower. You got to own it and everything else. So I’m curious, can you talk about the company’s outreach to a broader swath of investors, generalists, international? Can you talk about the success you’ve had just sort of getting the word out beyond the confines of the REIT industry to sort of make sure you’re getting your fair share if you’re not already, of course, but in the future, get your fair share of upside for all the successes that you’re having as a company? Thanks.

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: Rich, I don’t really know how to answer the question. We manage the business. We work 24/7, all of us together, to create what we think drives shareholder value over a period of time, which is partial earnings and cash flow growth. And we believe we can do that. We’re a tiny company in the context of U.S. or international capital markets that investors will find us, right? That’s not our job. Our job is to execute. It’s a hard business. I don’t think I want I don’t want you to walk away with this idea that everything is great, right? You guys see we have a large portfolio. You see, on average, what’s going on in our portfolio. And that does look good. I’m not going to say it doesn’t. Having said that, it’s a very hard business. We’re fighting challenges every day.

Our job is to execute with our operating partners from capital allocation to operations to everything in between. If we can drive partial earnings and cash flow growth, I don’t worry about that we don’t have enough investors who will not find us. It’s a matter of growth, right? I will keep this organization focused on growth, delivering actual operational and capital allocation outcomes. I don’t worry about that. Having said that, the company has sort of gotten to a size finally where it is showing up as sort of from a size standpoint with a lot of investors who didn’t know we exist despite the fact we sort of don’t get into what a lot of companies do, get on CNBC, Bloomberg, etc. We never do that.

However, a lot of investors are sort of seeing that this has become just from a size standpoint, market cap standpoint, has become large enough. They’re sort of finding what is this company about and reaching out to us. And we have a very good capital markets team, very capable team, to sort of teach them how we think about the business. And there is enough material on us that we have written over the time that it’s not a hard business to understand from that perspective. But I will leave it there. And we can have future conversations about this topic.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from Seth Burke with Citi. Your line is open.

Speaker 7: Hi. Thanks for taking my question. I guess just going back to the funds business, you announced the debt funds. You’ve deployed some of the equity funds kind of. And you’ve talked a little bit about the funds business as a way to kind of monetize some of the Welltower business systems and the successes you’ve had with the data science platform. Kind of how do you see the trajectory of that funds business? And should we expect that to be kind of a larger piece of the story over time?

John, Operational Leadership, Welltower: Yeah. I think, as I said in my prepared remarks, it’s opportunistic as tactical, right? We’re not asset gatherers. If there are opportunities that are complementary to our balance sheet where we can make money for our capital partners, we will continue to do more. If there aren’t, we won’t, right? So there’s no mandate beyond that. The simple mandate is to make money if there’s interesting opportunities to go do so. That being said, just like the debt fund, there was an opportunity for that that one of our LPs reached out to us about. And based on their suggestions, we created a strategy that’s appealing to several folks.

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: Yeah. I don’t want to repeat what Nikhil said, but I will. I have a significant problem with a lot of fund management business that have become just plain straight asset gatherer. And I never want this company to become that, right? So as we have said that we could have had this fund significantly bigger than where it was, right, because either we had our demand meaningfully outpaced what we were trying to do from a size standpoint. We want to remain what Nikhil said, that we take our LP capitals or LP investors’ capital as seriously as we take our public market investors’ capital. We will take capital only if we think we can make a significant return on it. Otherwise, we won’t.

We have no desire to become asset allocator and become a big fund management business where, in my personal humble opinion, a lot of these places have become capital-raising places instead of actually making money business, which they used to be. We’ll never let this company become that.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from Juan Sanabria with BMO Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Speaker 7: Hi. Good morning. Congrats on the results. Just curious on the capital side with regards to CapEx for seniors’ housing, how we should think about that. Both the recurring and other CapEx in shop has been fairly significant. And so just curious kind of what you’re doing at the asset level to maybe try to future-proof these assets versus your competition or what the capital is largely going to given the assets are generally newer that you’re acquiring.

Unnamed Executive, Senior Leadership, Welltower: Yeah. No, it’s a great question. When you look at starting with what we’re acquiring, at this point, we’re acquiring very good assets, and they’re younger assets. You can actually see that pretty easily when you look at the average age of the assets and the fact that every year, I get a year older, but our portfolio has actually stayed the same. That really tells you the quality of the assets that Nikhil is buying. I do want to highlight that. At the same time, some of these assets are bought where there’s been issues in the capital stack, which drives cash flow. That also drives decisions by the previous owners to hold back a little bit. Even though they’re newer assets, some of them need a certain amount of capital to get them up to the appropriate standards.

From what we’re doing, we’re really reinventing how the world’s looked at. Russ is heavily involved in this. I’m involved with it. Others are involved with it. Looking at it from a lifecycle cost, what is the lifecycle cost? How do we provide a great customer experience and manage things throughout the entire lifecycle? Whether it’s flooring, whether it’s siding, whether it’s how we paint wrought iron, every aspect of the business, we’re turning upside down and saying, "What would the smart person do if they’re going to own this asset and they wanted to maintain it?" That does require, in many cases, upfront cost, higher upfront cost. What you’re looking to do is to lower the run rate over time. That’s exactly what’s happening. I don’t want to get too much into the weeds and give out some of our secrets.

It’s exactly where we’re going after it is looking at each component. What is the lifetime cost?

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: Oh, Juan, I’ll add two things. As you sort of look at near-term historic and forward CapEx, two NMOs that you have to think about. One is Holiday, which we talked about. We bought Holiday, obviously, at a very, very low basis. And when we bought it, we said that it was a recurring investment. We’re sort of coming to the tail end of the investment cycle. So that’s very important. And remember what we said last call on HC-One? That will require that kind of investments. And we, again, bought it at a very meaningful, I think, at what, 95,000-96,000 GBP per bed. And we would require investment into that, probably 20,000, 25,000, 30,000 GBP per bed, something like that.

You just think about the total that will still be in these assets for less than GBP 100,000 or GBP 125,000 per bed, which you know is a very meaningful discount to where assets today trade at or it requires to build. Just sort of think about these two NMOs. Generally speaking, other than that, we’re buying 2- or 3-year-old assets which just not require a lot of work. But these two large portfolios, one is sort of falling off from that spend perspective. One is just taking off.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from Michael Carroll with RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Speaker 7: Yeah. Thanks. I wanted to circle back on the spread between RevPOR and ExPOR topic. I mean, how wide has that spread gotten in the recent past? And should we think about that spread continuing to widen out over the next few years just given that operators gain pricing power when occupancy is above 90% and the natural scale that the space has when occupancy starts to exceed 90%? I mean, how wide could that spread get?

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: If you have a stable portfolio, right, that is growing from, say, 90%-95% occupancy and all things being equal, your answer should be yes, right? So let’s just go into sort of the a little bit deeper. Let’s double-click on that conversation and go a little bit deeper. You should gain pricing power as assets lease up. There’s no question about it. And obviously, you’re able to scale your cost, particularly labor will come into play, right? But on the other hand, just think about there are other costs outside labor that are obviously problematic for every single owner of real estate, whether you are a single-family housing or you are owners of commercial assets like ours, line items such as utility cost, right? So that sort of is a headwind to that. Taxes, finally, you have to think about real estate taxes. Finally, cash flows are recovering.

That has an impact. Generally speaking, as we sort of think about, if we think about two main drivers of scaling labor versus your pricing power, you will think that that gap will widen or stay very wide as we move forward. Just remember, Mike, that a lot of things happening on our report and numbers, you have to think about how large this portfolio is, what we are buying, housing, store changes, and all of that. That’s why I said you just think about it. At the end of the day, what matters is bottom-line growth, right? Look at the bottom-line growth. In fourth quarter, we pulled off FFO per share growth in high 20s and cash flow per share growth in high 20s, right? That sort of tells you that all optics aside, the portfolio is firing on all cylinders.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from Michael Stroyeck with Green Street. Your line is open.

Speaker 7: Morning. Thanks for the time. Can you just put brackets around the levels of NOI growth expected in 2026 across the U.S. SHOP, U.K., Canada, and active adult businesses?

Yeah. Overall, you say brackets. So the overall portfolio is 15%-21%. We don’t provide guidance on the subportfolios.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from Jim Kammert with Evercore. Your line is open.

Speaker 7: Good morning. Thank you. I’ve read in some trade publications in the senior housing industry that today’s independent living and increasingly, maybe even the AL customer prefers larger residential units. I’m just curious, does Welltower detect or agree with that assertion? And if so, how do you think your portfolio is positioned to maybe address the shifting taste of the boomers coming into your portfolio? Thank you.

Unnamed Executive, Senior Leadership, Welltower: Yeah. So I’m going to, I think, someday, you guys are going to get really bored of me saying the same thing again and again and again. You’re picking up on something very important here, Jim, which is, I’ve said this several times, that this is a business optimization of location, product, price point, and operating overlay. What we mean by product, there are two different ways you should think about senior housing as a product, which is IL, AL, memory care. What services do you offer? And is it a two-bedroom, one-bedroom, or a studio, right? So there’s two ways you can think about product. There is no question in my mind that that product optimization, along with location, price point, and operating overlay, is very, very important.

We have said this several times that we have seen because of our, say, probably wrongly interpreted view that we focus as the largest owner of the space on price per unit. A lot of developers have built a lot of studios. And studios, as a function of a large building, is completely fine. You think about you have 100-unit buildings and you have 20 studios. That’s okay. I have seen many, many buildings that I consider functionally obsolete that have 60 units of studio. Recently, I saw one that has 66 units of studio out of 98, right? So you’re picking up on something absolutely very good.

These are the reasons that sort of you can see that we remain one of the very few who actually understood the business from the perspective of that optimization and not a perspective of location maximization, which most real estate investors think about. Our results speak for itself. You have to think about an optimization of all four and not just pick one. In this case, you are picking, obviously, on larger units versus smaller units and run with it.

Speaker 4: Your next question comes from Mike Mueller with J.P. Morgan. Your line is open.

Speaker 7: Yeah. Hi. For a quick follow-up on the fund vehicles, is the capital and the debt fund going to be focused on assets that Well would ultimately like to own? Or do you just see it as an in-and-out lending vehicle?

Yeah, Mike, it’s not set up as a loan-to-own strategy. We’re lending on existing cash-flowing, covering assets. With that being said, our general philosophy is we wouldn’t lend on assets that we don’t like as equity owners. But it’s not a loan-to-own strategy. I mean, like Shankh said, we were just talking about studios and buildings that are functionally obsolete or don’t make sense. Those buildings are not a fit for anything we do. Whether it’s debt, equity, whatever it is, we’re not going to touch them. So we only lend on product we like. But it’s a lending on quality product that’s covering cash flow.

Shankh Parikh, Executive Leadership, Welltower: It’s lending on quality product with strong sponsors that are these are all this is an acquisition credit vehicle, right? So in-place cash flow and all. It’s a simple lending business that one of our most important LPs came to us and said, "Do you want to build a product together with this idea?" And we thought that makes sense. That’s what we’re doing. It’s very, very simple. Do I do a lot of creative credit structures, Mike? I do. Nikhil, Patrick, and I have been sort of on the journey for a long time. Andrew loves it as well. So do we do it? Yes, we do. You have seen one of them is HC1, right? But there are many others. But you will see some we will sort of retain those on our balance sheet for all this experimentation on the structures that we do.

This is a simple first mortgage lending on assets that are acquisition vehicle with strong sponsors.

Speaker 4: This concludes the question-and-answer session and will conclude today’s conference call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect.